Podcast Episode 653: Kitchen Design Rules, Insulating Outdoor Columns, and Vapor Retarders
Listeners write in about low-cost kitchen designs and ask questions about insulating deck and porch columns and the right location for vapor retarders.
This week’s spotlight question comes from Peri, who asks the Podcast crew about insulating structural columns outside the thermal boundary. Nick thinks you should get kitchen design help from multiple experts. Robert is house shopping, and inspections indicate every house in the Bay Area has a problematic vapor barrier.
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Mike’s Trip to Italy: Moving windows, sloping stairs
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Listener Feedback 1:
Nick writes:
I heard rumor there is a newsletter. I didn’t see where to sign up for it on the website. I’d like to get myself signed up for that.😊
Thank you!
Nick
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Listener Feedback 2:
Rich from Michigan writes:
Dear Fine Homebuilding Podcast Crew,
I appreciate the depth of knowledge you provide in this podcast. Thank you for all the education you share.
In the Fine Homebuilding Podcast episode 643, someone wrote in asking for advice on finding inexpensive help with designing a kitchen remodel. About 10 years ago, we remodeled our kitchen. When we were shopping for cabinets, we went to two different big-box stores and two different small kitchen and bath design companies. We brought the floor plan of the kitchen with us—both the specs of the room and the locations of the windows, doors, drains, etc. Each place we went, someone at the firm did a design for us. We ended up working with the second kitchen and bath company. However, each place we went showed us ideas that we ended up incorporating into the final design. This included using 45° cabinets to the left and right of the window over the sink to make this area look larger. It also included taking out a wall between the kitchen and dining area; using an angled cabinet where the kitchen flows into the dining area and into the hallway; and using drawers for the lower cabinets. A funny thing happened at the kitchen and bath store: we were talked out of using a bookshelf, where the cookbooks would have been visible. The designer asked my wife if she cooked a lot—she does. Then he asked what her cookbooks look like. He pointed out that many people who cook a lot have cookbooks filled with recipe cards, folds of paper, and torn covers. He said most people don’t really want these out in the open for everyone to look at. Of course, he is correct.
So, this person who reached out to you could consider getting ideas from different vendors. They will almost certainly provide a wealth of information and different viewpoints.
Thanks again,
Rich
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Question 1: Do the columns holding up an elevated deck need to be insulated?
Peri writes:
Hello FHB Podcast Crew,
I own and operate (with a couple partners) a design-build firm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (Climate Zone 7A). My role at the company is leading our architectural design and engineering teams and navigating permitting processes at various levels.
I’m fairly well versed in building science, and I am currently chairing our provincial home building association’s Technical Research Committee, working with municipal, provincial, and federal bodies on energy efficiency, building science, the National Building Code, permitting issues, and various infrastructure processes (electrical power, natural gas, construction training, etc).
I’m sharing my credentials because I am having an odd disagreement with an employee and some of our site crew. The disagreement is about a specific issue relating to insulation in unconditioned spaces/structures, particularly built-up deck posts and address-sign walls.
Often we will have a walkout basement on our homes, and we will typically create a covered deck area accessible from the lower level directly to outside. The main floor deck will act as a canopy/roof for this basement walkout deck/patio. To support the main-floor deck, we will have posts. Very often, we will build those posts out of PT studs and plywood in an 18-in. x 18-in. box, usually about 9 ft. tall. These are usually about 10 to 20 ft. away from the home, depending on the dimensions of the main-floor deck. They are obviously not conditioned.
I have an employee that insists both the deck posts and the address wall should be insulated. The posts and the address wall are both stuffed with Rockwool. I tried explaining that I am sure it won’t do anything. You’ll just have cold insulation in the winter and hot insulation in the summer, as insulation is an energy diffuser; it does not magically generate its own heating and cooling out of thin air. His argument is that we insulate our parapet walls on flat-roof homes because the sun will heat up the parapets and melt frost inside the parapet, trapping moisture. But I tried explaining that these parapets are typically directly connected to conditioned spaces and are part of the envelope. The structure will allow the temperature of the adjacent conditioned space to more closely interact with the unconditioned outside air.
In the past, we have had a couple of those posts rot—this was a direct result, I think, from their inability to dry. We have since started to create a small weep at the base and do a better job of flashing the top to better control water ingress. Insulating won’t help anything—in fact, it might make it worse.
That being said, am I crazy or wrong that stuffing insulation into these posts or the freestanding address wall is a waste of time and money? I spoke directly with a couple building science experts in our area, and they both thought it was very goofy to insulate there. I wanted to hear your thoughts.
Apologies for the long note! Love your show and listen to it as often as I can.
Thanks,
Peri Maric
Maric Homes
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- Know the Code: The Complicated Path from Decking to Dirt
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Question 2: Where is the right place to put the vapor barrier in vented assemblies?
Robert writes:
Hi FHB Team,
I will start with a big thanks to all you do for us building science nerds. I have enjoyed you all sharing stories, tips, and tricks while emphasizing that there may be more than one right way to do a job.
I wanted to highlight this last nugget of wisdom to preface my question. My wife and I are home shopping in the Bay Area
. We have been to many open houses and viewed just as many disclosures. One interesting thing that we have noticed is that inspections will often point out that crawlspace and attic insulation is installed incorrectly. This mostly has to do with the placement of the vapor barrier. The spaces all appear to be “vented,” although I doubt the painted-over louvered ventilation is adequate. But why is there so much debate about the placement of the vapor barrier? And is there an authority to turn to when I find these inspection discrepancies from house to house?
I appreciate all that you do and look forward to submitting more questions in the future. Thank you for sharing your time.
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Well, unfortunately that is all the time we have for today. Thanks to Mike, Brian, and Andres for joining me, and thanks to all of you for listening. Remember to send us your questions and suggestions to [email protected], and please like, comment, or review us no matter how you’re listening–it helps other folks find our podcast.
Happy Building!
Fine Homebuilding Recommended Products
Reliable Crimp Connectors
Handy Heat Gun
8067 All-Weather Flashing Tape
